Agendas, reports and minutes

Minutes of the joint meeting of the Highland Licensing Board and the Highland Licensing Forum held in Committee Room 1, Council Headquarters, Glenurquhart Road, Inverness, on Tuesday 8 September 2015 at 2.00pm.

Business

Members of the Highland Council Licensing Board Present:

Dr I Cockburn, Mr C Fraser, Mr R Greene, Mr A Henderson, Mrs G Sinclair and Ms M Smith.

Members of the Highland Licensing Forum Present:

Mr R McGhee, Mrs P Hayden, Ms J Sutherland, Mrs J Home, Ms S Mackenzie, Ms E Smart, Mr G Clelland, Ms A Villegas, Mr I Cox, Mr D Inglis, Mrs L Treasurer and Sergeant B Gray.

In Attendance:

Mr A Mackenzie, Clerk to the Highland Licensing Board
Mrs F Sinclair, Clerk to the Highland Local Licensing Forum
Ms S Blease, Depute Clerk to the Highland Licensing Board
Ms A Macrae, Committee Administrator

Dr I Cockburn in the Chair

1.  Apologies for absence
Leisgeulan

Apologies for absence were intimated on behalf of Ms C Batesman, Ms G Gunn Mr W Mackay, Mrs S Williamson, Mr S Stirling, Mr D Lawson, Ms G Phillips, Mr D McDiarmid, and Mrs C King.

2.  Declarations of interest
Foillseachaidhean Com-pàirt

There were no declarations of interest.

3.  Confirmation of minutes
Dearbhadh a’ Gheàrr-chunntais

There had been circulated for confirmation the minute of the meeting of the joint meeting of the Forum and Board held on 7 October 2014.

The Minute was held as read and APPROVED.

4.  On-line application forms
Foirmean-iarrtais air-loidhne

There had been circulated Report No HLBF/001/15 by the Clerk to the Highland Licensing Board which provided an update on on-line applications.

The Clerk to the Board reported that currently applications could be made on-line for personal licences, occasional licences and extended hours.  Application forms for premises licences, variations and transfers were currently not available and he explained the difficulties associated with placing premises licence applications on-line given the size of the application and also the fact that that the legislation required that it must be in the form laid down by Statutory Instrument. However he advised that the Council’s Corporate Improvement Team would continue to investigate this matter, although he anticipated that it may be a considerable period of time before premises licences were available through this facility.

The Clerk further further reported that a saving facility had been introduced in response to problems reported by customers.   In addition, and while no formal feedback had been received, the Corporate Improvement Team had  reported that those customers who had experienced problems were still positive about the development of the on-line facility.

In discussion a point was raised as to whether the PayPal facility could be added to the on-line service on the basis that this would provide customers with a quick and secure method of payment.  In response it was explained that the Council did not use PayPal given the charges which were payable by the Council per transaction.

Discussion also followed on the potential for a solution to be found so that customers could not shut down their browser until the application process was completed.  The Clerk provided an assurance that the Corporate Improvement Team continued to work to address any issues associated with the new system.

The joint meeting NOTED the report.

5.  Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Act 2015 
Achd Innealan-adhair agus Ceadachaidh (Alba) 2015

There had been circulated Report No HLBF/002/15 by the Clerk to the Highland Licensing Board which advised of changes to the Licensing (Scotland) Act 2005 and the steps which would require to be taken by the Licensing Board as a result.

The Clerk advised of a correction to section 2.1 of the report which he clarified should read:-

‘Section 2 is amended to include angostura bitters from the definition of alcohol’.

The Clerk then proceeded to outline the main changes to the Act as detailed in the report.  He advised that the amendments were due to come into force by the end of the year.  On a separate matter he reported that a financial report on licensing income and expenditure was currently being prepared and once completed he would arrange for this to circulated to the Forum.

During discussion, the following points were raised:-

• concern was expressed in relation to the Chief Constable’s view that intelligence information be incorporated into the background information Police Scotland provided on applicants for personal licences and therefore at the issues around the fact the fit and proper person test would move from being based on factual information to include Police intelligence;
• a query with regard to the amendments in regard to personal licences and the arrangements for pending applications; it was reported that there would be transitional arrangements to cover pending applications; and
• it was noted that there was no clear definition as to what was “sexual entertainment” for the purposes of civic government licensing and what was “adult entertainment” for the purposes of liquor licensing;  it was felt that this may lead to legal arguments if premises claimed that they were providing adult and not sexual entertainment; this could be a particular issue if for example the Highland Licensing Committee determined that the number of sexual entertainment venues in Highland should be zero.

Thereafter, Mr R McGhee expressed concern at the plethora of legislation being introduced on liquor licensing and issues around the difficulties licensing solicitors and practioners, and in particular licencees, were having in keeping track of all the changes. He reported that the Licensing Forum had discussed this matter and suggested that it would be worthwhile for the Forum, possibly in conjunction with other Licensing Forums in Scotland, to submit a motion to the Scottish Parliament seeking a consolidation Act and he sought the Board’s support for this approach.

The Clerk to the Board advised that this matter had been consistently raised by Clerks across Scotland with civil servants at joint meetings and also at other events such as licensing training events and seminars but that, to date, there had been a reluctance at a Scottish Government level to take any action on this matter.

Thereafter, the joint meeting NOTED the report and AGREED to express support for any approach by the Highland Licensing Forum to the Scottish Parliament seeking  a consolidated Licensing (Scotland) Act 2005 incorporating all amendments.

6.  Early opening hours for distilleries
Uairean fosglaidh tràth airson thaighean-staile

The Clerk to the Board advised that there had been no demand for early opening from the distillery trade at the time the Board’s policy was reviewed, or since then, and also no recent applications for early hours opening.  Consequently, he was inclined to take no further action on this item until such time the Board reviewed its current policy in 18-24 months’ time.

In discussion, the Depute Clerk to the Board advised that in terms of the legislation the Board had the option to hold off reviewing its policy statement until after the next Council elections in 2017.  She clarified that any changes required in the interim could be dealt with by way of a supplementary policy.

In discussion, it was suggested that it would be more appropriate for the new post-election Board to be given the opportunity to review and determine the policy.

The joint meeting NOTED the update.

7.  Age verification testing
Deuchainneachadh Dearbhadh Aoise

Mr D Inglis, Licensing Standards Officer, explained that Police Scotland had indicated their intention to undertake test purchasing for on-sales premises in addition to off-sales as they were permitted to do under the provisions of the Licensing (Scotland) Act 2005.

He advised that related to this was a proposal to undertake age verification testing in conjunction with Trading Standards, whereby persons over the age of 18 would go into licensed premises and a check taken on whether they were being asked to provide identification in accordance with the Challenge 25 scheme.  If a licensed premises was regularly failing to ask for age verification then this would be fed into the Police’s intelligence on the basis they could then consider targeting these premises as part of their test purchasing operations. However further clarity was awaited from Police Scotland on their proposals before any age verification testing would commence.

The Licensing Standards Officer emphasised that the proposal was of particular relevance given the addition of ‘young persons’ to the licensing objectives.

The joint meeting NOTED the update.

8.  Overprovison statement
Aithris Tar-sholarachaidh

The Depute Clerk of the Board reported that to date there had been no serious challenge to the Board’s overprovision statement, the nearest being recent applications from Lidl which sought to extend the display area at the stores marginally beyond the 40 square metres.  She advised that on it becoming clear that the Board was not minded to approve the applications then Lidl’s representatives had received instructions to amend the applications to bring the size of the alcohol display areas in line with policy.

The Clerk to the Board advised that in addition to the above, another retailer had amended their applications, once it had been pointed out to them that it was not in line with the overprovision policy, prior to the applications being brought to the Board. In regard to any potential future challenges to the policy he was confident that the policy could be defended on the basis that it had been well researched and evidenced.

Thereafter, Ms L Smart, NHS Highland referred to NHS Scotland statistics which showed that 2014 was the first year in five years where the amount of alcohol sold per adult in Scotland had not reduced. It was suggested that this may reflect the improving economic situation and the fact that consumers had more disposable income.  Concern was expressed at any such continuing trends in terms of the impact on the population’s health.  It was noted that the statistics also showed that 72% of all alcohol sold in Scotland in 2014 was from off-sales, primarily supermarkets which represented an increase on previous years.

Mr R McGhee advised that in accordance with its statutory remit the Forum had been considering the impact of the Licensing (Scotland) Act 2005 in Highland. To date he advised that it was a favourable picture on the basis that crime figures had reduced and there had been a marked decrease in alcohol-related deaths.  The overall trends were therefore positive.

During discussion, a number of further points were raised as follows:-

• it was agreed that the NHS Scotland statistics referred to above and any other relevant information as submitted to the Highland Alcohol and Drugs Partnership be circulated to the Forum;
• it was suggested that, in future, if the alcohol harm rates were not being reduced then the Scottish Government may introduce a policy which would reduce the square meterage permitted for alcohol display areas;
• it was important to focus on trends in the longer term and not short term fluctuations in terms of the impacts of liquor licensing legislation and other policies;
• it was suggested that one issue which the Board may take a view on was applications for variations which sought to bring alcohol displays nearer the till area on the basis that this may encourage impulse buying and therefore increased sales of alcohol;
• reference was made to studies which had been carried out in this regard which showed it was not the quantity of alcohol but how and where it was displayed in off-sales premises which encouraged the extra sales;
• a contrary view was expressed that having alcohol near to the checkouts provided a higher level of supervision from staff and the opportunities for retailers to frame their applications in a better way, for example to tie in alcohol displays with food lines;
• concern was expressed that a large proportion of women who presented to Inverness Women’s Aid were victims of domestic abuse as a result of alcohol abuse and that it would be helpful for the organisation’s statistics in this regard to be made available to the Forum/Board;
• it was noted that a number of requests had been received with regard to increasing their measure for spirits from 25mls to 35mls; it was suggested that drinks manufacturers encouraged licensees to sell larger measures within the terms of the legislation as a technique to increase sales; and
• it was confirmed that the Board’s overprovision statement would be reviewed at the same time as its full policy statement given that it formed part of that policy statement, unless the Board was otherwise minded; it would also be open to the Board to consider if it wished to look at a particular policy on the positioning of displays of alcohol in off-sales premises as part of its policy statement.

The joint meeting AGREED that arrangements be made for the available statistics relating to alcohol sales and impacts and also that available from Inverness Women’s Aid as referred to in discussion above to be circulated to the Forum and Board.

9.  Personal licence holder refresher training
Trèanadh Ùrachaidh do Luchd-ceadaichte Phearsanta

The Clerk to the Board provided an update in regard to personal licences and advised that since 30 November 2014 in the following number of licences had been surrendered or revoked:-

Area	Surrendered	Revoked
Ross, Skye and Lochaber	61	301
Inverness	44	473
Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross	63	148

The Clerk reported that in terms of those licence holders who had had their personal licence revoked, only five had re-applied for a licence.  He also explained that there was a loophole in the legislation so that those who had previously held a licence could re-apply using their old training certificate.  He advised that this was at odds with the intention of the Act which was that non- licence holders should be required to undertake refresher training.

He also suggested that the Scottish Government could correct this legal loophole in terms of the regulations on the basis it was responsible for accrediting courses and therefore could determine that previous training   certificates would not be considered an accredited certificate or, at the very least, that a previous training certificate plus refresher training would be required.

The Depute Clerk advised that although it could be considered unfair that some people were required to complete refresher training, and others not, the issue of unfairness was not a valid basis on which to defend an appeal if the Board were to refuse an application on such grounds given that applicants had produced what was currently an accredited certificate.

In discussion, there was a consensus over the importance of persons reapplying for a licence to be required to undertake refresher training as had been intended by the Act and that the Scottish Government should act to close the legal loophole in this regard.

The joint meeting NOTED the update.

10.  AOCB

Mr R McGhee on behalf of the Forum congratulated Dr I Cockburn on his new role as Convener of the Highland Licensing Board and wished him every success going forward.  He also thanked Ms M Smith for all her work as the former Convener and the good relations she had fostered with the Forum which he trusted and hoped would continue in future.

Mr McGhee advised that the feedback from Alcohol Focus Scotland was that the Forum was doing as well, if not better, than other Forums in Scotland and in this regard he thanked the work, tenacity and perseverance of the Forum’s former Chair Mrs P Hayden, and also the excellent support and advice the Forum received from its Clerk and also the Clerk and Depute Clerk to the Licensing Board.

The meeting ended at 3.10pm.